Looks like this is installment number three related to using Yodle to market your law firm on the internet. You can find the first post here, and the second post here, if you want to read the entire exchange. If you want the reader's digest version, here it is.
I decided about a month ago to supplement my organic search engine optimization results with some paid online advertising. Yodle called me up at the right time, have a great online interface for tracking your clicks and calls and emails and seeing what is working and what isn't. So I signed up with them, with a $1,000 a month budget for advertising, to see what would happen.
The second post I put up just last week, and it detailed the progress from then until now, which was a little shaky. Two things appear to be the problem - first, there were some clicks from all over the United States, which aren't very beneficial to a Seattle DUI attorney. And second, the people that were clicking in the area, after coming to my site, just weren't picking up the phone and calling me. That is not a Yodle problem, that's a me problem (and a problem I think a lot of people starting their law firm have).
One thing I love about the internet and the way technology works these days is that soon after writing the Yodle review post last week I received a phone call from one of the Yodle reps inviting me to join her for a conference call to try to work out the issues. I wrote the post on Thursday afternoon, she contacted me Friday morning. At least someone is reading this blog!
Anyway, we met and talked this morning and I thought I'd let you know what was going on. First, so far I have been impressed with Yodle's customer service. They have been easy to get in touch with and have been extremely helpful at all stages of this process. Second, they seem genuinely interested in helping me get those clicks through to phone calls and conversions. And we are working on some changes right now to fix that problem (to at least get them to call, I still have to sign them up).
The changes, I'm sure you want to know, are this: first and foremost, my site(s) need to have a stronger call to action. You get to the site, see the information, see that I know what I'm doing, and now what? That is the call to action, and it is probably one of the most important things you can have on your law firm website (all over the place, and in different forms - phone number, email, online submission form, etc).
Second, I need more on my site to differentiate myself from the competition. And what is that? It is testimonials, it is special things that I've done for clients, it is anything that will set me apart from other people (including price, by the way). Yodle is helping me with all of this (and I'm sorry for not going into specifics, but they, at least I feel like, hooked me up with a special deal that I don't want people to think they just do for everyone - if they offer, take it, but what they are doing is outside of what I originally paid for, at least I think it is) and will continue to help me until it is right.
And the thing is, this is a lesson not just for using online paid advertising sources, this is a lesson for all of your marketing efforts. You have to think about your marketing effort in three different ways (at least that's how I see it): first, how am I going to get them to look at me and be interested in me; second, once they find me, how am I going to convince them that I am the right attorney for their needs AND get them to call me; and third, once I've got them in my office how am I going to continue to reinforce their feelings so they decide to sign up and be my client. If you can understand and execute those three items, the sky is the limit.
I guess for now the jury is still out on Yodle. They are doing everything right, their customer service is great, but I need that to be converted into dollars in my bank account. That is the measure of success in this case. And don't worry, I'll keep you informed on what happens.
Monday, October 26, 2009
Thursday, October 22, 2009
Update on Yodle for Law Firm Marketing
If you have ever tried to start your own law firm, you know one thing - getting clients is the end all be all of your business. You can be the best attorney out there, but if you can't get anyone to utilize your services, you won't be in business. Because of that, the first thing I think about when I wake up in the morning and the last thing I think about when I go to bed is how to get clients to my law firm.
A week or so ago I wrote a little bit about the only marketing I'm paying for. I'm using Yodle to market my law firm right now. What they do is put ads up at the top of Google search and on the sidebar of google search so that people can see that your firm is out there and that they can do what the potential searcher needs. I think it's been about a month and I've received three calls, one from a prospective client and two from internet marketers trying to sell me the same type of stuff, and a lot of ad clicks.
Does this mean that adsense and adwords advertising doesn't work? I don't know if I'm ready to say that yet. For one thing, it's not possible for me to tell if people are just not interested when they click or if they are not interested when they get to the site. That remains to be seen (and I'm doing some site modification as a bit of a test to see if it helps).
Another thing that has caused me to shy away from this type of advertising is the studies and articles I've read on it that show that people don't really look at those ads anymore when searching for what they want. And those articles make sense to me, because when I am searching for stuff I never look at or click on the ads that are around. In some sense it is almost like they've disappeared into the background. I immediately go for the organic search results to find what I am looking for, in part because I can see some of the content they've created and gauge whether or not I think they are a trusty source.
I'm going to try to talk to the Yodle people and either suspend my account for a bit or significantly downsize it until my site changes are made. I'll let you know how that works out, since we don't have a term contract in place, just an agreement to start the services. I have a feeling they get responses from customers like me all the time, so we'll just have to see how they handle it.
In the end, getting law firm clients is king. Without them, not only do you not work, but you don't eat. So keep your marketing efforts ramped up, keep going after those clients, and don't rest on your laurels. Business may be good now, but there is always someone (like us!) hot on your heels trying to dethrone you as the (in my case) Seattle criminal defense attorney in town.
Update on Yodle Law Firm Marketing
Here are the other Yodle Marketing Posts.
A week or so ago I wrote a little bit about the only marketing I'm paying for. I'm using Yodle to market my law firm right now. What they do is put ads up at the top of Google search and on the sidebar of google search so that people can see that your firm is out there and that they can do what the potential searcher needs. I think it's been about a month and I've received three calls, one from a prospective client and two from internet marketers trying to sell me the same type of stuff, and a lot of ad clicks.
Does this mean that adsense and adwords advertising doesn't work? I don't know if I'm ready to say that yet. For one thing, it's not possible for me to tell if people are just not interested when they click or if they are not interested when they get to the site. That remains to be seen (and I'm doing some site modification as a bit of a test to see if it helps).
Another thing that has caused me to shy away from this type of advertising is the studies and articles I've read on it that show that people don't really look at those ads anymore when searching for what they want. And those articles make sense to me, because when I am searching for stuff I never look at or click on the ads that are around. In some sense it is almost like they've disappeared into the background. I immediately go for the organic search results to find what I am looking for, in part because I can see some of the content they've created and gauge whether or not I think they are a trusty source.
I'm going to try to talk to the Yodle people and either suspend my account for a bit or significantly downsize it until my site changes are made. I'll let you know how that works out, since we don't have a term contract in place, just an agreement to start the services. I have a feeling they get responses from customers like me all the time, so we'll just have to see how they handle it.
In the end, getting law firm clients is king. Without them, not only do you not work, but you don't eat. So keep your marketing efforts ramped up, keep going after those clients, and don't rest on your laurels. Business may be good now, but there is always someone (like us!) hot on your heels trying to dethrone you as the (in my case) Seattle criminal defense attorney in town.
Update on Yodle Law Firm Marketing
Here are the other Yodle Marketing Posts.
Yodle for Law Firm Marketing - Part 1
Yodle for Law Firm Marketing - Part 3
Wednesday, October 14, 2009
Starting a Law Firm and Phone Systems - What I Do
Received this email from a guy in New Orleans today and thought it might make a pretty good starting your law firm post since we all need to figure out a way to get connected to clients and there are a lot of options out there. So, here we go:
But people cost money. And I didn't have a lot of money. So I immediately ruled out the idea of starting with a receptionist from the very beginning. And besides, the way I saw it, the phone wouldn't be ringing that much to begin with, so who cares if it was just me to answer it?
Then I started thinking "Well, what if I'm in court or something and a prospective client calls? I don't want to miss the call because then I'll likely lose the client." And, quick aside here, at least in criminal defense, people aren't very fond of leaving messages, so it is important to try to get them on the phone and then into your office as quickly as possible. So I started looking into virtual assistants.
There are very good virtual assistants or receptionists out there and they do a good job. And though they are much cheaper than any help you might hire in your office, they definitely wouldn't fall into the category I would call cheap. And, in addition to that, not being able to set everything up exactly the way I wanted was a major hurdle to me.
Side note again - there are two things I envision with my law firm. First, an experience that makes people feel like they made the right decision to hire us, like they have a good attorney working for them, and that they are getting the best outcome possible for their case. And second, I want every client to have exactly the same experience, i.e. I want to have a set of systems in place that help move every client from intake to resolution in as smooth a manner as possible. To do that takes a lot of work and a lot of staff training to get it just right. This would include answering the phone, the information you get at intake, the correspondence clients get and when they get it, and on and on.
The way I see it, right now I can give them the experience I want, and though at this point it is more elbow grease than hiring someone to do it, this way it gets done right, and I've got plenty of elbow grease to spare.
Part of my office rent includes a phone with a dedicated number. What I did was, take my phone.com numbers and have them first ring the office phone for 30 seconds, and if no one answers, then ring my cell phone. For my cell, I set up phone.com so that when potential criminal defense clients call the phone.com number shows up. This way I always know if a work call is coming through (though I don't know who is calling - and if you need caller ID to screen you aren't doing good by your clients - it's much better to just talk to them for ten minutes and answer whatever question they have). This worked just fine for a few months. And then I found Google Voice.
Google voice does exactly the same thing phone.com does, except it is free. So I immediately signed up two numbers, set them up to ring my office and cell phone at the same time (again with the google voice number showing), and began telling everyone that that was my number. And it's worked great. In addition, google voice can convert your messages into emails for free. This means if you are in a meeting and someone does leave you a message, if it is a potential client you can call them back immediately and hopefully sign them up.
As my practice grows I will continue to have those two numbers as my main phone numbers and just point them towards whatever phone system I have in place at the time. This allows me to keep the same number forever, never have to pay to have it move, and easily set it up to ring wherever it needs to ring at any given moment.
Whenever anyone calls, I answer the phone. The phone rings and I answer it whether I'm at work or at home, whether a weekday or a weekend, whether 7 a.m. or 7 p.m. And it works great. The only downside to this is that when people find out you are an attorney, they will want to talk to you to get a fee quote for their case immediately - don't fall for this trick. Get their basic information so you can look up what they've been charged with (or do a little bit of investigation into their lawsuit possibilities) and make them come in for a face to face. Only then can you sell them on what you can provide to them and can they see why they need you over everyone else.
Hopefully this answer the phone system question. As my practice grows and I add staff I'll keep you updated on the changes I make, including my system from start to finish (if you're lucky!).
JimWhen I first started thinking about opening my criminal defense law firm, one of the first questions that popped up was what am I going to do about phones? If you have ever worked in a law firm, ever been in a law firm, or ever been in any other type of business, there is usually at least one person dedicated strictly to answering the phone.
I'm a New Orleans law student thinking about starting my own firm after school. I love your site and subscribe to your feed. I have a question as to your thoughts on phone systems for the fledgling practice.
Phone systems are critical because a lost or mishandled call could result a lost client. Virtual phone systems have really picked up recently and do offer convenient services. However, there is a lot to be said for having a live body answer the phone. Is there anyway to marry these two ideas? What phone systems do you recommend (virtual or not; live body or not)? What are the best options?
Greg in New Orleans
But people cost money. And I didn't have a lot of money. So I immediately ruled out the idea of starting with a receptionist from the very beginning. And besides, the way I saw it, the phone wouldn't be ringing that much to begin with, so who cares if it was just me to answer it?
Then I started thinking "Well, what if I'm in court or something and a prospective client calls? I don't want to miss the call because then I'll likely lose the client." And, quick aside here, at least in criminal defense, people aren't very fond of leaving messages, so it is important to try to get them on the phone and then into your office as quickly as possible. So I started looking into virtual assistants.
Law Firm Virtual Assistants - The Pros and Cons
As I started looking into virtual assistants, I quickly realized one thing - if I wanted them to answer the phone the way I wanted, get client information the way I wanted, and provide clients and potential clients with the type of experience I wanted, it was going to take a lot of time to train them, and it was going to cost a lot of money.There are very good virtual assistants or receptionists out there and they do a good job. And though they are much cheaper than any help you might hire in your office, they definitely wouldn't fall into the category I would call cheap. And, in addition to that, not being able to set everything up exactly the way I wanted was a major hurdle to me.
Side note again - there are two things I envision with my law firm. First, an experience that makes people feel like they made the right decision to hire us, like they have a good attorney working for them, and that they are getting the best outcome possible for their case. And second, I want every client to have exactly the same experience, i.e. I want to have a set of systems in place that help move every client from intake to resolution in as smooth a manner as possible. To do that takes a lot of work and a lot of staff training to get it just right. This would include answering the phone, the information you get at intake, the correspondence clients get and when they get it, and on and on.
The way I see it, right now I can give them the experience I want, and though at this point it is more elbow grease than hiring someone to do it, this way it gets done right, and I've got plenty of elbow grease to spare.
My Law Firm Phone System Journey - Phone.com vs. Google Voice
When I first opened my law firm I bought two numbers through phone.com and a fax number from efax. Total cost was about $30 a month. I like phone.com because you can do a bunch of different things with the numbers, including directing where they ring and when they ring the locations they do.Part of my office rent includes a phone with a dedicated number. What I did was, take my phone.com numbers and have them first ring the office phone for 30 seconds, and if no one answers, then ring my cell phone. For my cell, I set up phone.com so that when potential criminal defense clients call the phone.com number shows up. This way I always know if a work call is coming through (though I don't know who is calling - and if you need caller ID to screen you aren't doing good by your clients - it's much better to just talk to them for ten minutes and answer whatever question they have). This worked just fine for a few months. And then I found Google Voice.
Google voice does exactly the same thing phone.com does, except it is free. So I immediately signed up two numbers, set them up to ring my office and cell phone at the same time (again with the google voice number showing), and began telling everyone that that was my number. And it's worked great. In addition, google voice can convert your messages into emails for free. This means if you are in a meeting and someone does leave you a message, if it is a potential client you can call them back immediately and hopefully sign them up.
As my practice grows I will continue to have those two numbers as my main phone numbers and just point them towards whatever phone system I have in place at the time. This allows me to keep the same number forever, never have to pay to have it move, and easily set it up to ring wherever it needs to ring at any given moment.
Whenever anyone calls, I answer the phone. The phone rings and I answer it whether I'm at work or at home, whether a weekday or a weekend, whether 7 a.m. or 7 p.m. And it works great. The only downside to this is that when people find out you are an attorney, they will want to talk to you to get a fee quote for their case immediately - don't fall for this trick. Get their basic information so you can look up what they've been charged with (or do a little bit of investigation into their lawsuit possibilities) and make them come in for a face to face. Only then can you sell them on what you can provide to them and can they see why they need you over everyone else.
Hopefully this answer the phone system question. As my practice grows and I add staff I'll keep you updated on the changes I make, including my system from start to finish (if you're lucky!).
Monday, October 12, 2009
Tackling Marketing Costs and Choosing the Right Marketer
I received an email today from a guy asking a question about something that I think everyone would want to know about when starting a law firm, so I'm going to post it here and then answer it. And, I think from now on I'll do the same, so that if anyone else has these questions they can all be answered here, and (gasp!) maybe a discussion will break out here that will provide even more insight for people.
David in Colorado wrote this to me today, bringing up a point I've been meaning to talk about:
The sad news is, I don't have any clear answers, but I do have a philosophy on this, and I think it might be something that can be carried out and adopted by others, assuming it fits into the view of what your practice should be like.
First and foremost, I don't do any print advertising. Just don't do it. And I practice criminal defense, where people might be interested in finding a criminal defense attorney. Why don't I do any print advertising? A couple of reasons. First, I don't think people use print advertising any more (unless it's a billboard - that could have value). Even the poorest of people know how to get down to the public library and look for what they want. And second, the type of client I want (even for criminal defense, which honestly ends up being some of the most regular people you'll ever meet) has both a computer and an internet connection and is smart enough to use them to find me. Possessing those qualities as a client usually means they possess another quality I like - a stream of income that can be used to pay for my services.
Second, whenever I get a call from someone promising to feed me clients, I am immediately skeptical. First, not everyone can guarantee clients, so someone is lying to me. And second, I haven't yet seen enough evidence from anyone that is trying to sell me this stuff to convince me they can make it worth my time.
Except one. After doing no paid advertising for the first two to three months of starting my law practice, and my organic google experiment moving a little slower than I liked, I decided to sign up with a company that creates ad campaigns for you on google (these are the ads you see on top of the search engines and to the right). The reason I chose these guys was they were relatively cheap, they had a cool/useful database system to work with, they targeted the specific keywords that I was looking for to get clients, and they allowed a three month contract. They are a company called yodle.
To give you the details, I think I paid $99 for a set up, pay $57 a month in helper fees (they organize the campaign, update it, and modify it over time to more specifically target the ads and campaigns that work) and $1,000 a month in fees for google adsense (you pay an agreed to fee every time someone clicks on one of your ads). If the entire $1,000 isn't used, it is rolled over into the next month. If you aren't happy, you can get out.
Using this advertising, if I sign up one client a month through them, I've paid for the advertising and made some money on top of that. Assuming I sign up more than one client (the obvious goal), I'm immediately on my way to making decent money for my firm (I am about as streamlined as you can get - my overhead is stupid low). In the past two weeks, since this has started, I've had 53,000 ad views, 53 clicks, and one phone call for business (that I failed close). And the thing is, the calls should become more frequent and better suited to sign up with me as time goes by because I grade every phone call that comes in.
Third, and finally, I don't ever buy anything from anyone that promises to put me on the first page of google organically (i.e. without the ads and stuff like that). Why is this? Because they aren't charging me enough to be their only client, and they aren't the only company promising this, so pretty much all of them are lying to me in some way. What I will pay for is a link to my website with my keywords in it, because that is actually valuable for building your organic search rank (see my post on law firm website backlinks for a refresher on this).
Instead I am working on that on my own, which will be information in another post (as this one is already getting pretty long). And, after about two months of nothing, I am now seeing the results I thought I'd see (see my post on the law firm website sandbox for that).
And, I guess to finally answer David's question, since it seems like I only did it in a round about way. I try to keep my marketing budget as streamlined as possible, and I only want to turn on one form of marketing at a time so I can see what really works (I hate throwing good money away). So far I'm only signed on with Yodle. I'll give them the three months, at least, to see if they start bringing me enough business to justify the cost. If they can and they appear to be working, I may try to pick up another advertising mode, if they can convince me that they are truly offering me value for my dollar.
I also saw that you mentioned you pay for Thompson/West listings. Don't do it. They are the equivalent of a yellowpages.com (which I would never use anyway). Where, in the past, someone had to go to the yellow pages to find information on a business (think pre-internet), they would look to the yellow pages. Now, the yellow pages are set off into three areas - Google, Yahoo, and Bing. No one goes to a site within those sites, they just look for what they want right in the Google search engine. So, if I were you, I'd focus on getting onto Google in places where people will see you (for your extremely targeted keywords - think Seattle DUI attorney vs. Seattle attorney) and working toward building your organic ranking so you don't have to spend gobs and gobs of money on advertising.
Oh, and I forgot one last thing. I do have one other paid advertising string that I use. It is on a local news station website, and I paid for it for one reason - I get to insert as many keyword links as I want. So, what I did was put in all of the keywords I like (Seattle DUI attorney, Seattle DUI lawyer, etc.) and then once that site was up I've begun sending links to that site to make it more recognizable by Google, thus making my website more recognizable by Google. This is the type of stuff you should be paying for.
As always, I love comments, questions, and suggestions, and hope everyone is successful opening their own law firm.
Update on Yodle Law Firm Marketing
I have since written about using Yodle two more times.
David in Colorado wrote this to me today, bringing up a point I've been meaning to talk about:
Hi, Jim –He brings up a question I've struggled with for a long time - how much to spend on advertising for your new law firm. And more importantly, where to spend the money I would so love to keep in my pocket.
Love the blog.
I note your marketing cost line is $100 to $500 depending on which posting I view.
I am a partner in a small firm (2 partners and several contract attys).
Our marketing is insane compared to what you have listed (which I tend to think is closer to what is actually necessary). We just spent $13k last month on our ads, listings, everything marketing. About $2500 of that will go away in January when we cut the cord with Findlaw/Thompson West. But that still is a very bloated budget.
Other than a heart attack, any thoughts?
Thanks,
Dave in Colorado.
The sad news is, I don't have any clear answers, but I do have a philosophy on this, and I think it might be something that can be carried out and adopted by others, assuming it fits into the view of what your practice should be like.
First and foremost, I don't do any print advertising. Just don't do it. And I practice criminal defense, where people might be interested in finding a criminal defense attorney. Why don't I do any print advertising? A couple of reasons. First, I don't think people use print advertising any more (unless it's a billboard - that could have value). Even the poorest of people know how to get down to the public library and look for what they want. And second, the type of client I want (even for criminal defense, which honestly ends up being some of the most regular people you'll ever meet) has both a computer and an internet connection and is smart enough to use them to find me. Possessing those qualities as a client usually means they possess another quality I like - a stream of income that can be used to pay for my services.
Second, whenever I get a call from someone promising to feed me clients, I am immediately skeptical. First, not everyone can guarantee clients, so someone is lying to me. And second, I haven't yet seen enough evidence from anyone that is trying to sell me this stuff to convince me they can make it worth my time.
Except one. After doing no paid advertising for the first two to three months of starting my law practice, and my organic google experiment moving a little slower than I liked, I decided to sign up with a company that creates ad campaigns for you on google (these are the ads you see on top of the search engines and to the right). The reason I chose these guys was they were relatively cheap, they had a cool/useful database system to work with, they targeted the specific keywords that I was looking for to get clients, and they allowed a three month contract. They are a company called yodle.
To give you the details, I think I paid $99 for a set up, pay $57 a month in helper fees (they organize the campaign, update it, and modify it over time to more specifically target the ads and campaigns that work) and $1,000 a month in fees for google adsense (you pay an agreed to fee every time someone clicks on one of your ads). If the entire $1,000 isn't used, it is rolled over into the next month. If you aren't happy, you can get out.
Using this advertising, if I sign up one client a month through them, I've paid for the advertising and made some money on top of that. Assuming I sign up more than one client (the obvious goal), I'm immediately on my way to making decent money for my firm (I am about as streamlined as you can get - my overhead is stupid low). In the past two weeks, since this has started, I've had 53,000 ad views, 53 clicks, and one phone call for business (that I failed close). And the thing is, the calls should become more frequent and better suited to sign up with me as time goes by because I grade every phone call that comes in.
Third, and finally, I don't ever buy anything from anyone that promises to put me on the first page of google organically (i.e. without the ads and stuff like that). Why is this? Because they aren't charging me enough to be their only client, and they aren't the only company promising this, so pretty much all of them are lying to me in some way. What I will pay for is a link to my website with my keywords in it, because that is actually valuable for building your organic search rank (see my post on law firm website backlinks for a refresher on this).
Instead I am working on that on my own, which will be information in another post (as this one is already getting pretty long). And, after about two months of nothing, I am now seeing the results I thought I'd see (see my post on the law firm website sandbox for that).
And, I guess to finally answer David's question, since it seems like I only did it in a round about way. I try to keep my marketing budget as streamlined as possible, and I only want to turn on one form of marketing at a time so I can see what really works (I hate throwing good money away). So far I'm only signed on with Yodle. I'll give them the three months, at least, to see if they start bringing me enough business to justify the cost. If they can and they appear to be working, I may try to pick up another advertising mode, if they can convince me that they are truly offering me value for my dollar.
I also saw that you mentioned you pay for Thompson/West listings. Don't do it. They are the equivalent of a yellowpages.com (which I would never use anyway). Where, in the past, someone had to go to the yellow pages to find information on a business (think pre-internet), they would look to the yellow pages. Now, the yellow pages are set off into three areas - Google, Yahoo, and Bing. No one goes to a site within those sites, they just look for what they want right in the Google search engine. So, if I were you, I'd focus on getting onto Google in places where people will see you (for your extremely targeted keywords - think Seattle DUI attorney vs. Seattle attorney) and working toward building your organic ranking so you don't have to spend gobs and gobs of money on advertising.
Oh, and I forgot one last thing. I do have one other paid advertising string that I use. It is on a local news station website, and I paid for it for one reason - I get to insert as many keyword links as I want. So, what I did was put in all of the keywords I like (Seattle DUI attorney, Seattle DUI lawyer, etc.) and then once that site was up I've begun sending links to that site to make it more recognizable by Google, thus making my website more recognizable by Google. This is the type of stuff you should be paying for.
As always, I love comments, questions, and suggestions, and hope everyone is successful opening their own law firm.
Update on Yodle Law Firm Marketing
I have since written about using Yodle two more times.
Yodle for Law Firm Marketing - Part 2
Yodle for Law Firm Marketing - Part 3
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